That's Good. Pick it Up!
Nate Oxman is a true Renaissance Man—Marion caddie, teacher, longtime golf writer, published author, and now podcast host. On That’s Good. Pick It Up!, Nate sits down with the authors behind some of golf’s best books, sharing the stories, ideas, and moments that make the game so meaningful. If you love golf and a good read, this one’s for you.
Purchase Nate's book, Philly Phenoms - https://tinyurl.com/mr262nfw
That's Good. Pick it Up!
Nate Oxman & The Philly Phenoms
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
⛳️ Join the BestBall Golf Club - https://patreon.com/bestballgolfclub
Buy The Philly Phenoms - https://www.amazon.com/Philly-Phenoms-Nate-Oxman/dp/B0F7NSDD78
Auld Grey Toun Golf Books & Collectibles — https://www.auldgreytoungolf.com
Interested in sponsoring That's Good. Pick it Up!? Email info@bestball.com.
That's Good. Pick it Up! is a member of the BestBall podcast family.
Hello and welcome to That's Good Pick It Up, a podcast mostly about golf books. This is Robbie, founder of Best Ball and producer of this show. This week we're doing something a little different. We are going to listen to an episode of the Whole Story Podcast where we interviewed Nate Oxman about his book and what he does in the game of golf. We're doing this because we have some exciting things coming to this podcast. And we want to make sure you knew Nate. And then next week, you'll have to come back and you'll hear about his new co-host. I'll let you wait and hear who that might be. But for this week, on that's good pick it up, we listen to an interview that I did with my buddy Jonathan on the Whole Story Podcast where we interviewed Nate Oxman. Y'all enjoy. All right, well, Nate Oxman, thanks for joining us on the Whole Story Podcast. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing well, guys. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Well, Nate, you uh you hailed from Philadelphia. We'll get into a little of that story, but as we uh, you know, we we know you're a writer and and do all these things, but before we get into that, we ask everybody like, how did you get into golf? What was your first uh experience picking up a golf club? Somebody handing you a golf club saying, hey, let's go do this crazy game. What uh tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00Uh I was eight years old, and my my dad is a diehard golfer. He he still plays two or three times a week. He's 73. Um, so as soon as I was ready, he put a golf club in my hands. Um he learned from his father, who, you know, wasn't a was an occasional golfer at Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia, the municipal course that they're restoring right now. Um and then when my dad was in high school, he moved out to the suburbs and he started cadding at Philadelphia Country Club, and that was his intro to golf. Then he started cadding on the PGA tour um before I was born, and he jokes all the time that um I was the reason why he had to stop caddying on tour. My sister and I were born. We uh uh I have a twin sister, so when we were born, he was forced to give it up and get a real job, and he still kind of um needles me for it because he wishes he was still out there.
SPEAKER_03That's pretty funny. Um yeah, well, I am sure uh he he doesn't really uh regret uh being able to be home and hang out with you guys.
SPEAKER_02So that's quite an origination story. Is that do you feel like that's a lot more pressure then? Because your dad obviously isn't bad at golf but understood it and was, I mean, cadding at the pro level, does that mean your world had to catch up pretty quick?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and actually my uncle, you know, um his story is even crazier. So my my uncle and my dad cadd on tour like when they were in college in the summer, and that's what a a a lot of tour caddies were back then. They were guys, you know, in their in their college years who would just go out in the summer and just grab a bag and do it. There weren't a lot of professional caddies back then. Um and then my uncles did it part-time while he built a career here in Philadelphia, and then you know, when when Tom Watson's caddy, Bruce Edwards, um, passed away, my uncle grabbed the bag. So my uncle was on the bag for Tom Watson when he almost won the the open championship at Turnbury in 2009. Um 2009, yeah, sorry. Um so uh between my dad and my uncle, yeah, there were some big shoes to fill, but I was lucky enough to grow up only about two miles from Marion Golf Club. So when I got old enough to caddy um at 14, you know, similar to golf, when my dad put a club in my hand, he said, you know, this is your summer job starting now, and I was all about it. I just wanted to be around golf. So I started caddying at Marion in in uh 1995, and I really haven't left um since then.
SPEAKER_03Uh well, we were gonna ask more about the caddying piece later, but since you bring it up, yeah, caddy at Marion, like that's uh that's a pretty big deal. I mean, everybody we uh we asked so many people, and we'll ask you later your favorite golf logo. Um, and a lot of people say Marion, right? So I mean you have the unique wicker baskets, it's just an iconic golf course. Uh people love talking about it and love the chance when they get to it. Jonathan and I have never had the opportunity to play it, but what is it like caddy in there?
SPEAKER_00Uh it's as good as it gets. You know, people say it's the best inland course in the country, and I really believe it. I I tell people all the time that the best thing about Marion is that there aren't two holes anywhere near alike, and there aren't two greens anywhere near alike. So you're playing 18 awesome golf holes, totally different from each other, and you're putting on 18 totally different greens that are so fun. Um so I I caddied from 1995 until 2006 or so, you know, when I was trying to figure out what to do after I graduated from college in 04 from Penn State, and I kind of hung around because though the money was so good, you know, there was a little bit of pressure to get a real job, but I tried to push it off as long as I possibly could. And then um I got a job writing f uh full-time in the suburbs here in Philly. So I took 2006 and most of 2007 off. And then I met my wife and she kind of laid down the law. She's a teacher, so we were on opposite schedules. I was laying out the newspaper at night, going to cover a high school football game, working three in the afternoon to three in the morning. So we were on opposite schedules, and she's like, Don't think this is gonna work if we keep up, you know, passing each other, you know, a couple hours a day. So I went back to school to get certified to teach, and at that point I was like, I gotta go back to Marion to make some money. So I called the caddy master and I said, Can I just come back and caddy? And he's like, Well, we need an assistant caddy master. Um, so I did that in 2009. I went back um and I've been the assistant caddy master uh part-time from 09 till now. There's no reason to leave. I mean it it's literally a mile and a half from my house, and people would think I was crazy if I left, I think. I still get the caddy four or five times a week in the summer and a couple times during the school year. Um so it it's a perfect part-time job.
SPEAKER_02So so I've used the caddy once or twice, but typically like the course resembles itself from hole to hole. So how much how much more difficult is that to sort of every single hole? I mean, granted, you know the 18 holes now, but how much more important is the caddy for that golfer who, let's be honest, it might be the only time in their life they get to come play Marion?
SPEAKER_00I think it's really important because there's so much local knowledge. If you watch go back and watch footage from the 2013 US Open when Justin Rose won, um, you'll see just players miss putt after putt after putt because those those greens take forever to get to know. Um, you know, there's still spots that are tricky for sure. Um so the greens, you definitely need a local caddy, and then we have tons of blind shots. Um so you need to know the lines for sure. And then there are some holes that look downhill that don't play downhill, that are uphill but don't play uphill. Um and as you know you guys talked about before, with the wicker baskets, you can't really tell what the wind's doing all the time. Um so knowing the prevailing winds is another reason why you need a local caddy. So next year USM in August, um, we'll see how many local caddies we we get to g throw out there. I caddy to know five. Um, and I think we used a decent number of our caddies then, so it'll be fun to get back out there, hopefully.
SPEAKER_03And then the 2030 open, I believe, is back there at Marion again.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one we'll be rolling. 30 open, 34 women's open, 40 open, 50 open, I think 54 maybe women's open again, something like that. So it'll be cool the next I mean, the next 20 years or so if I can make it that long.
SPEAKER_03Oh, absolutely. Well, you've got kind of the perfect schedule for for doing it during the summertime as a teacher, uh, you know, being an educator, and then being able to have your summers to do something else like this. Again, why would you give up the opportunity to be at Marion if you're that close? But it's not only the the this is not only what you're doing, right? You're also a writer, and we we've learned more about that. You've sent us some information about uh a book you've written, but I know you've you wrote for what the tri uh what was it, the tri-cities or Tri-State Golf, yeah. Yeah, Tri-State Golf. So how did you get into writing? Like what was the the genesis there?
SPEAKER_00So similar to golf, like I remember when my dad used to come home from golf, and he would I would always ask for a scorecard, and I would just study a scorecard. I loved it for whatever reason, it's just it was just interesting to me to look at uh how he played. And similar when he came home from work, he would throw the newspaper at me if I was sitting on the couch and I would just go right to the sports page, which annoyed my uncle because you know he's into politics, so he always wanted me to read real stories, but I just flipped to the sports section. And back then the papers here in Philly had great sports sections, so I would read every single article, study every box score, and um I just fell in love with writing. So I was a d I studied journalism at Penn State and then worked as a sports writer, like I mentioned, covering mostly high school sports, but a ton of golf here in the Philadelphia area, a lot of local golf, and we have you know some of the best amateur golf in the country here. And then whenever there was a pro event, um I would get to cover that too. And I always had this idea for a novel in the back of my head, kind of based on my childhood in golf. And this this photo above my head um is the cover of the book that a Marian member painted for me, but that's the clubhouse at the course where I grew up playing. It was called Edge Mount Country Club. Totally blue-collar place, like in a a Philly, really rich private golf club area. This was like a blue-collar place that you would have plumbers playing with lawyers and doctors, you know, playing with contractors. So it was a really cool place. Um and that's where I grew up playing, and there were just so many stories around that place that I kind of like banked them in my memory. And then when I had an opportunity to start writing a book, maybe ten years ago before my first daughter was born, I started, you know, putting some some uh word docs together. And then I took a sabbatical from teaching a few years ago and I wrapped it up, I got the manuscript down, and then the last two years I I kind of spent editing it and finding a publisher and doing that huge process. So it was my first kind of dive into some creative writing and some the fiction world. Um, but it's been great. And again, I th I think I'm lucky that a lot of it's based on my story and I have so much experience writing golf that I was able to do the play by play in a way that people could understand whether they have a background in in golf or not. It's for 10 to 15 year old kids, so it's a great way for kids to learn the game, you know, in a non-threatening way. Um and it's really been exciting for me to share it with the kids in the Philly area.
SPEAKER_02Did you find it easier to write your book than to uh write for Philly fans? Because they're notorious for turning on people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you can never make anybody happy. So if I was covering a high school sports, you know, game, like a a w a girls' basketball game or something, and you know, I I didn't paint somebody in the most flattering light, you would hear it right away. Really? Not just pro sports, high school sports too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I was just about to say, at least with a paper, you're kind of behind the scenes, as opposed to like a call-in show. There's no way I would ever consider it a call-in show in Billy. But like, you know, you write some things, you publish it. But I mean, now I guess they can get back to you pretty quick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I didn't get a lot of hate mail, but I got some. Can't make everybody happy all the time. Especially when you're right, you're on deadline, right? So I would go to this basketball game and I would come home and have to write the story and then put lay out the paper. So there's a lot of pressure to put on deadline. So um sometimes you make little mistakes if you don't have time to catch them carefully.
SPEAKER_03You said the Philly phenoms is written for like the 10 to 15 age bracket. I think that might be about my reading level. So um, I mean Yeah, it's perfect. Uh so is it really, I mean, would adults uh enjoy the content as well?
SPEAKER_00I think so. Um it one of the one of my goals was to write it in a way that uh you know I speak. So there aren't a lot of big words in there. The story flows really well. Uh s after having you know a dozen years or so experience teaching sixth grade English, where the kids are asked to analyze every single thing the author did, every word they chose, you know, what why the character did this, why did the setting change? And it it's I watched a lot of kids get turned off to reading, and that bothered me a lot. So I wanted to do something totally opposite. So there's not a lot of deep thinking going on here. The story's laid out again, like I said, as it is. Um, I think the characters are um relatable for kids and adults. You know, the the main character, Lee Lomax, this 10-year-old kid, his antagonist is like a 65-year-old old crotchety member, kind of this drunk guy at the club. So um I'm sure most golfers, regardless of their age, can ro can relate to that.
SPEAKER_02Well, it sounds like I've got a friend who's an editor, and it's if you took a year or two to edit, as opposed to write it self-publish, though it on your blog or something like that. Right. That that changes the the quality of the writing, correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was another goal too, because um uh like I said before, you know, whenever those little errors would slip into my you know newspaper articles, it bothered me. And I didn't want my credibility to be hurt by you know having some errors in in the final product here. So I went through it over and over and over again and proofread it a bunch of times. And the editors at the at the um publishing company, Atmosphere Press, were great to deal with. So hopefully there aren't uh too many errors in there. But you know, they say like when you're reading your own writing, it's hard to catch everything. So I tried to go over it with a fine-tooth comb. Um, I try to get my 12-year-old, I have three daughters, my 12-year-old to help me out, but she had no interest.
SPEAKER_02I was just about ready to ask. I saw the picture on social media of you signing with the with your uh publisher and your daughters and your wife. I was like, well, you've got four people at least at home to be critics on whether or not the book's a good start, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I've told this story before, but um when the first book came in the mail, the first copy came in the mail, like it was a big deal to me. I didn't think I would ever write a novel when I was a kid or you know, let alone get it published. So it was it was really cool for me to hold that first book, and then I showed it to my kids, and my 12-year-old just kind of like turned the other way. My nine-year-old asked me to like go outside and play with her, and my five-year-old, um, same thing. She was like, Let's go downstairs in the basement and swing on the swing. So they were, you know, were totally indifferent to it. Um, but hopefully they'll come around. I should have made a 12-year-old read it for summer reading this summer for sure.
SPEAKER_03That's true, you gotta sign it to your students.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I don't think you're uh in a different boat than many others. Jonathan, how many how many podcast episodes do you think your kids have listened to?
SPEAKER_02Oh, only whenever they're forced to in the car with me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, mine uh I have two kids. They both play golf, but getting them to listen to to stories. So maybe maybe a story about a writer uh in the golf space would be something more interesting. But what were some of the challenges that you went through as you were writing this thing?
SPEAKER_00So it was really long uh at the start when I finished the manuscript, and it still is pretty long. You know, for a middle grade fiction novel, it's about 270 pages, so it is pretty long. It was probably like 350 when I finished the manuscript. So cutting out some scenes that I thought uh were really well written and I thought the reader would really like, that was a big, big challenge. Um, but my editor was awesome with that. And I had a friend who I grew up with, he caddied for me at Marion, uh, with me at Marion for a few years, and we played basketball against each other. He's a professor at Drexel University here in Philly, and he's had a few books published um by some of the big publishing houses. So I gave gave him the manuscript, and he was a big help too. He's like, Yeah, I think you have too many kind of golf play-by-play scenes, let's cut out one of those, and one of them was a big one. Um, so thankfully, um between my editor and my friend Matt Smith, we were able to chop it down. That was definitely the biggest challenge. And then, you know, going back to what I was talking about before with you know my experience as an English teacher, one of the things that um works really well when are when you're able to visualize the story, right, as a reader. So that's something that was a challenge for sure, especially because, like I said, I wanted these kids to who have never picked up a golf club before to be able to read this and understand what was going on. So painting the picture for the reader during the golf scenes um was difficult, and I had to go back over and over and over and made sure that I was being crystal clear. And then when I ever, whenever I added in a golf term that I didn't think kids would understand, putting some context clues, you know, to explain what the heck that term meant, you know, even like simple things like a birdie and an eagle, um, that was a challenge just to make sure I didn't miss any of those.
SPEAKER_02Uh I've been around golf for a long time. I still have no idea what an eagle is, haven't seen it, haven't been a part of it.
SPEAKER_03If you use terms like shank and golf and chunks, yeah, that would get that would that would resonate with most golfers out there.
SPEAKER_02I can visualize those. I can't visualize the other ones.
SPEAKER_03Well, I guess in your experience as a caddy and and now as a as a author of a book, um, do you have other ideas that are kind of percolating? And like you know, I might have another idea for another book, or is this gonna be a sequel or a series of books down the road?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. I think I I did a good job of creating the main character, this kid, so there's a potential there. Um I thought it'd be cool if you guys remember like when I was young, they used to have these choose your own adventure books where you know you got to a certain spot and you got to turn to a page depending on what you wanted the character to do. So I thought it'd be cool to apply that to golf. You know, a guy has a shot and he hits it to two feet, you know, turn to this page, or he chunks it in the water, turn to this page. So I have that. And then um again, the antagonist, this that character I think I did a good job of creating too, so there could be something with him. And then my next project, we have a a caddy at Marion who played on tour for a long time uh named John Elliott. So I'm working on a project with him, um, which is gonna be really cool when it gets finished. He makes John Daly look like um a priest, so there's so many good stories that are gonna go into this book that uh I've done a lot of research on, and um I'm gonna dive in after I'm done promoting this one.
SPEAKER_02Well, that choose your own adventure would be fun for adults, right? You can either turn into like the hack at a Muni by the end of your story, or you can be like uh on the tour as a pro. You just have to decide, like, I'm gonna practice tonight, or I just want a girl, I'm gonna go to the bar instead.
SPEAKER_00Love it. I'm gonna remember those ideas. That'd be fun. Yeah, yeah, I think it's gonna be cool.
SPEAKER_03You could also take your antagonist and do like uh like many books or movies have done and do a prequel. So, like the Hunger Games, right? And be like, where was this guy when he was 13 years old? Maybe he was like the promising young star and something happened. So you start writing these things down, don't worry about giving us credit for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll give you guys credit for sure. Best ball.
SPEAKER_03And baseball. Yeah, as long as the the the karate old guy doesn't have anything to do with best ball. He didn't start it.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03Well, you mentioned your your cover artist, uh a local artist there, uh Paolo Costa or Costa. Um and then Chandler Withington uh did some other uh did a golf course map, and then Ryan Gable or alternate golf logos did some artwork for you as well. So it was kind of a team effort and at least in different pieces and parts of the books, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. You know, I wanted to do something different with the cover, and so this Marion member who I've known for probably 15 years, um, I could be wrong, but I think during COVID he started to paint well, you know, as a hobby, and he used to, you know, post them on he still does, he posts them on Instagram, and I loved his style, and he did one of a caddy that's hanging up in the bag room at Marion. Um, so when I finished the manuscript, I didn't just want the publisher to make like a generic cover of this kid and his dad. Um so I asked him to kind of brainstorm some ideas, and the first one he did actually ended up being the title page in the book. And then this this one was the final version after, you know, two or three tries, uh he landed on this one, and I think he killed it. There's the colors are awesome. I've gotten so many compliments on it. And then Chandler, you know, Willy Withington was uh an assistant golf professional at Marion for a while, and then he became the head pro at Hazel Teen National in Minnesota, and they held the Ryder Cup 2016. And he left the golf business, you know, the golf professional side of it anyway, to pursue golf art. So he does a lot of sketching. Um and the course map that he did to kind of serve as a reference for the reader turned out really well too. It comes before chapter one. So whenever there's talk in the book about, you know, a hole at the the country club in the story, you know, you c the reader can flip back to the map. And then Ryan Gable did the logo for this. uh fictional course and he's killed it with alternate golf logos on Instagram. Um he's done some great stuff and that that space has grown huge just you know the golf logo business has um ballooned since since COVID I would say.
SPEAKER_02So when you sell your millionth copy does that mean you're gonna open up your own golf course and name it after the fictional place?
SPEAKER_00I should. So the course went went under maybe ten years ago. It was local it was owned by a little family who built the golf club and the golf course and then um they just didn't want to manage it manage it anymore so they sold it and now it's a bunch of townhomes. So it's tough to drive by knowing what was once there. So it'll be cool to kind of create something like that again. Sure it'd be expensive as heck here in Philly. But it would be fun.
SPEAKER_02What was the signature hole of the now fictional golf course?
SPEAKER_00Oh good question. Um probably number nine although people probably chime in and yell at me for this but number nine was this like uphill dog leg par four um that when you got to like the the dog leg you had this awesome downhill shot with the driving range in the back and the kind of like a stone wall like there is in this photo. I'm guessing it was farmland back in the day so there's all these really cool stone walls and there's a stone wall in the back so it was an awesome backdrop for your uh the finish to the front nine there. But it was it was you know like a mom and pop design so I don't think they had any you know um input from like a professional architect but they did a cool job in the in the fall it was beautiful with the the leaves changing colors.
SPEAKER_03What other kind of uh writing are you currently doing now?
SPEAKER_00Uh I still contribute to Tri-State Golf you know maybe it's a quarterly magazine so I just did um a big article on the upper course at Baldusrol reopening Gilhan's did it and it reopened in May we went out there for the grand reopening that's an unbelievable place. Um so I did a feature on that. And then whenever something else pops up locally and the publisher asks me to contribute you know technically I'm the staff writer but I don't do as much writing as I used to because I have 800 other things going on.
SPEAKER_02Well this question is not for me and Robbie but if someone wanted to write a book where where would you recommend starting? Like what would you or more importantly maybe in the middle of the process they'd be like hey this is going to happen so just be ready for it.
SPEAKER_00I think you know uh leaning on as many people as possible to help you is key. You know there's no way that I couldn't have turned out a good product you know and I've been lucky enough to to win a couple awards um if I didn't have you know a a great team at at Atmosphere but if my friend Matt Smith didn't help me and didn't give me the that advice to to chop it down um because the readers are usually young. So you know try and by you know joining different groups online different writers groups you can you know post uh a paragraph or post a chapter and get some great feedback. There are so many forums out there we're lucky that technology has helped in that sense. I don't know how I could have done it you know 30 years ago. So you know finding resources online I think is huge. And then just not being afraid to go back and revise you know that's something that I always struggled with. You know anytime I finished a story I just wanted to you know throw my hands up and say it's out there, I'm done. Um but being willing to kind of read your own work and be a critic of yourself and try to make it as good as it possibly can be no matter how many times you have to revise it is huge. And I've never been good at that but like I said before I forced myself to do that because I knew this was going to be a big project.
SPEAKER_03Have you uh have you sat to read for the audio book yet?
SPEAKER_00No I'm trying to find my I have a terrible voice it's funny like once um I started um doing teaching online during COVID and then ever since then you know I've recorded so many lessons for the students who are absent um that trying to listen to those is definitely cringy as as the kids would say um so I definitely need to find somebody with with a great voice. I have somebody in mind that I've I've gotten to know um but I'm sure it's going to come with a big price tag.
SPEAKER_03You need to get like a uh a 16 year old or something to do it for you.
SPEAKER_00I thought about that too like you know since I've been teaching for 16 years I have so many kids who have taught and so many of them are yeah just get like a get like a group of six of them together and pick a character and find a narrator and I think they could do something cool. The drama program in our in our schools here in the suburbs of Philly is really strong and there's a lot of kids who would love to do it I think if I found the right group I wouldn't have to pay them.
SPEAKER_02I know of two drama groups locally here in Augusta that would probably be up for something like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah it'd be a cool experience for everybody I think the Philly Phenoms Broadway show I can see it coming that'd be cool. That'd be really cool. Well who um we're big fans of golf writers so excited about what you're doing but who as a golf writer do you look up to do you read do you recommend to others to hey go get their stuff?
SPEAKER_00There are a few so uh I'm gonna space on the title of the book but um there is this writer he's he's long gone his name's George Plimpton who did a lot of like participatory journalism so he wrote like Paper Lion where he went to the went to training camp with the Detroit Lions in like the 70s or 80s and was like their eighth string quarterback and you know kind of wrote like a diary. And then he did the same in golf you know he was a terrible golfer but he he tried to become a professional golfer and he documented it. So even though um all of his work is really old it's still it's timeless. So um I would really encourage young kids to read him. A little bit of inspiration from the book came from John Stree, another longtime golf writer. So he wrote a book called When War Played Through about how during the world wars, you know, when the tour events stopped hosting majors um because so many people were all fighting in the war um they had these exhibition matches you know that the Red Cross states around the country where pros would tour the country right and go to Philly and play against you know two local PGA pros from the Philly section or the best amateurs in Philly. And I kind of brought that into this story um with 9-11. So the main character Lee experiences 9-11 he's homesick and then the Red Cross announces that they're gonna have some matches around the country on the anniversary of 9-11 to celebrate and raise raise money for the victims' families and that's that that's in the book. That's how the book you know culminates. So John Street was a huge inspiration. And then Michael Bamberger is a a longtime you know golf writer here in Philly who um kind of has his own style he's a quirky guy and he's got a quirky writing style but I admire his ability to kind of pull out the the unique personality of the subject that he's writing about rather than just writing you know he had an eight iron here to five feet and made a birdie well definitely oh sorry go ahead Robbie no I was going to say well is uh is the book going to be on the shelf at Marion I think that's a good question to ask. Yeah so um I'm I was really really you know um thankful that the the golf chairman just went to our new director of golf and he said hey let's let's put this book in the golf shop um I I didn't even pressure him at all I didn't think it was even a possibility I didn't want to go there um so it's it's in the golf shop now at Marion um it's in the archives we you know we have probably the the most famous and um most in-depth archives um room in in the country it's a small room but there's so much stuff in it because we've had so much history here at Marion so it's nice enough it's nice that they're able to to sell the book for me in the golf shop.
SPEAKER_03They want to be able to say as you continue to hit it big time that this is one of our caddies.
SPEAKER_00Right yeah I think it's a cool connection absolutely sounds like you need to take your 12 year old to the archives maybe that will be the impressive part we're like wait a minute I didn't tell me you were going to be in the archives I know right yeah I took my nine year old so we have we have two courses at Marion the championship course the east course and then there's a a west course at like a mile up the road that's like a 6,000 yarder mostly cart golf although a lot of people do walk it you know mostly for the older members and then it's a perfect course for juniors so I took my middle daughter who's nine out there last Monday and rode around in the golf cart. You know she cared about a couple things driving the golf cart having a soda um and then hitting some golf shots. So um no pressure at all she could take as many swings as she wanted I didn't you know say one thing other than great shot and she had a blast. So if I think if you can do that, you know, at least like plant the seed you're gonna be okay. I don't see a reason to force it on any kids especially when we're trying to expose them to as much as possible and let them find their own way. I think that you know she'll eventually probably be be into golf and then the 12 year old will pick it up you know at her own pace and my five year old is probably going to be the best athlete of all of them. She's gonna take take after her mother um so she could do anything.
SPEAKER_03You know she picked up a tennis racket she could play tennis she picked up um a golf club she could swing it for sure that's uh that's fun to watch the kids figure out what they want to do so and and it's fun when you're introducing kids I you know somebody told me one time when my kids are young they should said make it fun for them. If they want to drive the cart great if they want to go jump in a bunker great like let them have fun being there and then they'll figure out that they actually might want to hit a few shots.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it's it's so hard that you know you just gotta let them enjoy like even making contact right and getting the ball up in the air that's just that's a huge milestone as a kid is getting the ball airborne I think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah well it's gonna be fun uh years down the road when Jonathan and I open up with one of our guests and we say what got you into golf and they say well I picked up this book uh The Philly Phenoms and that's kind of what what got me interested and I went out and and started playing so uh it'll be a it'll be a good story.
SPEAKER_00That's that's the number one goal is to get as many kids playing as possible.
SPEAKER_03That is the goal. Well I don't know if you have any good answers for this because you sound like you're incredibly busy writing teaching caddying all the other things but maybe you get to play some golf but we ask everybody uh the same question what is your most memorable golf shot?
SPEAKER_00Golf shot um oof um the closest I've ever come to a hole in one um was on number 15 at Marion when I was probably 17 years old it's like a 215 yard par th par three yeah and I hit three wood and um you can't if the pin's in the back you can't see the ball finish. So I knew it was close it was tracking from the T and then I got like 20 yards short of the green and there was no ball there. So I was like oh my god this this is it um I made a hole in one but then someone started walking toward me from the next T with the ball in his hand so my first thought was like he picked the ball up out of that hole didn't he he ruined my experience of picking the ball up out of the hole and then as I got closer to the hole I saw the ball mark literally like just uh in one you know maybe ball mark over from the lip of the cup um so that was as close as I could possibly get to a hole in one without getting one um that's definitely the most memorable shot I can still remember it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah because you're closest to the hole ended up being like 80 yards away at the next T-box.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah it was wild. I don't think I've come I you know I've hit it to like a couple feet of a bunch of times but that's definitely the closest I've been to a hole in one and that was almost 30 years ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I'm bad enough at golf I'd rather have that story I think than hole in one I'd be like I was so close it missed by 100 yards. Another thing we like to do is call the quick nine just a little back and forth easy questions here.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna exclude Marion from this one but uh what is the favorite course that you've played um so I've been very very lucky that since I've been at Marion for so long and I have so many uh great relationships with the members there they're so generous that if I you know tell them I'm going to this place for vacation or I'm I really want to play this course you know they'll help set it up for me. So when my dad turned 70 a few years ago I was like I'm gonna do something big. So I plan this trip to Long Island you know people say like uh Long Island is the best golf in the country um and it's true I think you know Philly's probably second but Long Island's first. So we played um a few different places but the best one is National Golf Link Sub America um and to get to experience that with my dad you know is unbelievable. It's better than any shot that I've ever hit just seeing him out there just enjoying it. And he won't mind if I say this but so when you make the drive um you turn off of like the main highway on Long Island and then you drive pretty much right to Shinnecock Hills. Right? So there's this road that goes through Shinnecock and I said and dad said is that Shinnecock and I said yeah and then as we pull and kind of go climb up even steeper you go past Shinnecock and then you can see like National's clubhouse on the hill and he's like are we going to National and I said yep and then he just burst into tears. Wow which was really cool. I mean it's an unbelievable drive if you're even out there on vacation you have to make the drive because it's a public road um so it's just so cool and the setting is unbelievable there with you know surrounded by water the most beautiful place in the world.
SPEAKER_03That's that's cool. Uh well those and Marion are on our bucket list. So we've got to ask do you still have anything left on your bucket list?
SPEAKER_00Yeah I've never played golf in California so it'd be cool to go out to Pebble and you know play Pebble in Cyprus and those places. Those are definitely on the bucket list. And then um there's a place in Nebraska called Sand Hills that people say is you know could be the best course in the country. I've never been out there so some California golf um and sand hills in Nebraska in the middle of nowhere uh that that's probably comes to mind first.
SPEAKER_02Not not too bad a choices there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Alright you've been around golf for a while what would you say is the best course that no one knows about uh well one of them here is in Philly it's called golf mills um it's a really sleepy private club really old money you know we probably have 30 or so Marion members who are members at golf mills too you know in in the most of the season if you're at Marion there are 120 140 players a day so it's pretty jammed. Golf Mills will get like a hundred less so there'll be like 30 to 40 players so you go out you can pretty much get on the first tee whenever you want it's right near the King of Prussia Mall like one of the biggest malls in the country but when you're out there you feel like you know you're in the middle of nowhere. It's a really cool place tons of elevation changes like Marion tons of different golf holes um it's from I think 1916 so it's it's been there for a long time and many people outside of Philly unless they're into golf course architecture have never heard of it and you know when people want to come to Philly to play private golf they play they want to go to Marion they want to go around to Eronymick where the PGA is next year. Philadelphia Cricket Club's hosted some events lately they had the truest this past year. So those are like the big three that come to mind but golf mills is as good as it gets nice. Well when you get to your uh bucket list course who's gonna be in your dream for some um my dad for sure um and um I would I'm gonna eliminate the other two so I'll I'll keep the other two spots open and just play play with him you know uh unfortunately with uh since I have so many jobs and since I've been busy promoting the book this summer um and then I have three daughters um I don't get to play as much with him as I would like um but it's it's the best thing in the world just to be able to share share the golf course and share the day with him and as you guys know that's one of the great things about golf is you can play with a 10 year old and you can play with you know a person who's a hundred years old. Yeah it's uh only two spots there I dodged the question but a Tusum is just fine.
SPEAKER_02Nope it's about who you play with.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Alright what is your walk-up song when you get up to the first team um oh good question I don't need like uh some kind of banger like a big anthem or anything um I'm a big classic rock fan my dad got me into classic rock music too so I can credit him for for uh golf sports writing and classic rock um so probably the weight by the band um I named my my oldest my oldest daughter Anna Lee um based on a character in the song and my dad's name is Lee and then Lee Lomax the main character in the book they're all they're all named after my dad so the weight by the band is for sure uh my walk up song.
SPEAKER_03I love it. What is your favorite club in the bag?
SPEAKER_00Uh I tell people all all the time when I'm playing with them the first time that I I do a lot of things decently well on like a my index is like a little more than five so I could shoot like 75 or 95 if I'm playing terribly. But I can hit driver you know 240 down the middle with the best of them. I don't hit it far but I can hit it down the middle. That's the best club in the bag I would think. Who knows what's gonna happen after that but I can hit my driver well.
SPEAKER_02If you hit your driver consistently 240 down the middle that that saves quite a few strokes off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah especially at Marion where you have to hit it in the fairway or you're gonna make a double you know unless you get lucky. I have to figure out a driver before I go to Marion Alright uh favorite snack on the golf course uh my wife would yell at me because she knows I go most rounds without eating anything um but probably like a a protein bar or something nothing exciting um I've been like uh as skinny as a rail my whole life and I've my wife's been on me forever about gaining weight so caddying like is not good you know if you're trying to gain weight you can't eat some eat cheeseburgers out there. Um I'd probably walk you know on average seven and a half miles a day when I'm looping um and I hardly ever play golf in a cart um so I should eat more than I than I do out on the golf course but nothing exciting.
SPEAKER_03Does Marion this is a side question does Marion have like a go-to food item?
SPEAKER_00Yeah I should know the answer to this but um they stole a peanut butter jelly and bacon sandwich from somewhere um maybe like ten years ago and they brought it to the halfway house so that's definitely the signature um item at the halfway house that sounds amazing on a peanut butter jelly and j and bacon I don't know if you want to eat it when it's like a hundred but I know what I mean for dinner. Yeah it's popular you know I haven't heard anybody take a bite and say this is terrible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Alright uh again Marion is one of those logos that people answer to this uh this next question but let's take them out of the running favorite golf course logo I've never been to Wingfoot but I've always loved Wingfoot's logo that's a cool one um I like the simple ones you know you see oh here's a good one um so there's a nine hole course just at the edge of Woodstock New York um in the Cadskills it's pri a little private club but if you go on vacation there you want to go and see where the concert was held which is like 45 minutes away from the town um they'll let you play you know if you say hey I'm staying nearby can I play this golf course while I'm here they'll let you on and the logo is really cool and Ryan Gable who did the logo for the fictional course and for my book he retouched the Woodstock one so it has like the peace sign and it has the little bird that you know people probably can picture from the Woodstock logo sitting on the guitar. So it's got that little bird up top and then the peace sign below it um that's really cool. That's probably my favorite favorite logo and most people don't know about it. Anytime like somebody has a contest on Instagram or online or something I'll submit that Woodstock one because most people don't know it. Yeah that's really neat too yeah and if you're up in that area you might as well go to Sullivan County golf club another writer Tom Coyne has a lot to do with uh that route revival and great logo so yeah and he has and Jason Kelsey Philly guy is uh part owner I think yeah yep is uh you you don't have a character named Jason Kelsey in your book I should have put him in there so he he lives maybe a half mile from Marion um and uh he plays there a bunch we we have a big outing in the spring for the Eagles Autism Foundation where Kelsey and uh all the big names come and it's it's a blast they take out the T markers and they make them um Pylons, so that's pretty cool. Um, everybody has a great time. It's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02Alright, last question. Uh finish this sentence.
SPEAKER_00The best part of golf is uh playing with people that you love for sure. You know, it it's funny that people come to Marion and they're so worried about playing well, you know, they they're playing this bucketless place, and you know, they might be a low single-digit handicapper and they're like, Oh, I want to shoot 75 today. Um and I don't tell them, you know, you shouldn't be thinking about that, but that's what I'm thinking. You just need to enjoy being out there with people you love, you know. I wish everybody I could give a ticket to everybody and say, hey, this ticket will get you on to Merion, um, because everybody should get to experience great places like that because there are so many in the game. Um and I think we're in a good spot where if you have the means, you know, you can knock off some of those with charity rounds and stuff. You know, there's so many auctions online that if you have the means you can, you know, get your way onto those private clubs. Um, but there are a lot of them too, where if you write a heartfelt letter to somebody, a handwritten letter, you know, and they can make it work for you, they'll do it. You know, more often than not, you'll be surprised, dear Nate.
SPEAKER_03Oh man. Well, Nate, this has been a lot of fun, man. Tell everybody where they can find your book.
SPEAKER_00Thanks. Thanks for giving the opportunity to come on and to to promote it. So it's on Amazon and everywhere online where you would find you know books. You know, if you search the Philly Phenoms online, you know, you can buy it on Barnes and Noble's website or Walmart's website. Um, but the best way is to go to Amazon.com and search the Philly Phenoms. Um uh you can go to my website too, thephilly phenoms.com, and that'll give you a link too. But Amazon um is number one for sure.
SPEAKER_03Very nice. Well, we will be sure to include links for all that stuff in our show notes. So uh yeah, so people can find it and uh and read it. So uh Nate, we appreciate it, man. That's been a lot of fun learning more about you, about what you do, and uh about the book. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Thank you guys. Thanks for so much for having me and for doing what you can to grow the game. That's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's it for this week's edition of That's Good Pick It Up. Again, this is Robbie Woodard, founder of Best Ball and producer of this and other podcast for the Best Ball Network. You can check out all that we do at bestball.com. Be sure to like and subscribe to any and all the podcasts. Leave us a good review because we love telling golf stories, and the more people like and review it and subscribe to these things, the more it will go out to other people so they can enjoy them as well. Well, that's it for another episode of That's Good Pick It Up.